Comments by Japanese friends, in July and August 2016, provide a whole body of insights and details little discussed in the submarine Anglosphere.
New Japanese Defence Minister Inada. Nakatani demoted?
In early August 2016 Japan’s conservative Prime Minister Abe appointed a like-minded conservative as Defence Minister. She is Tomomi Inada. Too early to tell what impact she will have. She is considered highly nationalist by China and some other regional neighbours. “Many political observers in Japan believethat Abe is grooming Inada to be his successor…”
I don’t know if former Defence Minister Nakatani has been demoted? If so, was it due to not selling the sub to Australia?
Sub size and sonars
Gleaned from Comments (27/7/16 12:05) from ex-Vice Admiral, Masao Kobayashi (SHIPS OF THE WORLD, from 2016, No.9) along the lines that generally the larger the submarine the more powerful and effective its sonars. This places larger, reactor powered, submarines at the top of the sonar effectiveness tree (particularly for more commonly used passive sonars). The large SSKs, like the Soryu and future Shortfin, would rate highly. Small SSKs (eg. TKMS Ula class and Type 210mod) not so much.
SORYU TABLE (with earlier Oyashios) as at August 26, 2016
SS | Build No | Pennant | MoF approved amount ¥ Billions & FY | LABs, LIBs, AIP | Laid Down | Laun | Commi-ssioned | Built |
8105 Oyashio | ¥52.2B | LABs only | Jan 1994 | Oct 1996 | Mar 1998 | KHI | ||
6SS-15SS | 8106 | SS-591-600 | ¥52.2B per sub | LABs only | Feb 1994 | Mar 2008 | MHI | |
16SS Soryu Mk 1 | 8116 | SS-501 | ¥60B FY2004 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2005 | Dec 2007 | Mar | MHI |
17SS | 8117 | SS-502 | ¥58.7B FY2005 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2006 | Oct 2008 | Mar | KHI |
18SS | 8118 | SS-503 | ¥56.2 FY2006 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2007 | Oct 2009 | Mar | MHI |
19SS | 8119 | SS-504 | ¥53B FY2007 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2008 | Nov 2010 | Mar | KHI |
20SS | 8120 | SS-505 | ¥51B FY2008 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2009 | Oct 2011 | Mar | MHI |
No | No 21SS built | |||||||
22SS | 8121 | SS-506 | ¥52.8B FY2010 | LABs + AIP | Jan 2011 | Oct 2013 | Mar | KHI |
23SS | 8122 | SS-507 | ¥54.6B FY2011 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2012 | Oct 2014 | 7 Mar 2016 | MHI |
24SS | 8123 | SS-508 | ¥54.7B FY2012 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2013 | 2 Nov 2015 | Mar? 2017 | KHI |
25SS | 8124 | SS-509 | ¥53.1B FY2013 | LABs + AIP | 22 Oct 2013 | Nov? 2016 | Mar? 2018 | MHI |
26SS | 8125 | SS-510 | ¥51.7B FY2014 | LABs + AIP | 2014 | ? | Mar 2019? | KHI |
27SS Soryu Mk 2 | 8126 | SS-511 | ¥64.3B FY2015 | LIBs only | 2015 | 2017? | Mar 2020 | MHI |
28SS Soryu Mark 2 | 8127 | SS-512 | ¥63.6B FY2016 | LIBs only | 2016? | 2018? | Mar 2021? | KHI |
29SS New Class | ? | ? | LIBs only | ? | ? | 2023? | MHI? |
Table courtesy of information provided to Submarine Matters. LABs = lead-acid batteries, AIP = air independent propulsion, LIBs = lithium-ion batteries.¥***B = Billion Yen.
HIGHER COST FOR HIGHER PERFORMANCE OF SORYU MARK 2s (Mk 2s)
THEY ARE 27SS AND 28SS
[Pete Comment - The budgeting for the Japanese Ministry of Defence (MoD) is single year and multi-year depending on the documents. The Board of Audit (BoA) and Ministry of Finance (MoF) need to be convinced that ongoing or higher funding is needed for MoD's new submarine requests. The conceptual complexity of these requests is something MoD needs to constantly explain to MoF and to other relevant branches of Government.]
Gleaned from Comments The non-AIP Soryu Mark 2’s (27SS onwards) and follow-on class will paradoxically have some structural similarities to the non-AIP Oyashios that preceded the AIP Soryu Mark 1’s.
THEY ARE 27SS AND 28SS
[Pete Comment - The budgeting for the Japanese Ministry of Defence (MoD) is single year and multi-year depending on the documents. The Board of Audit (BoA) and Ministry of Finance (MoF) need to be convinced that ongoing or higher funding is needed for MoD's new submarine requests. The conceptual complexity of these requests is something MoD needs to constantly explain to MoF and to other relevant branches of Government.]
Gleaned from Comments The non-AIP Soryu Mark 2’s (27SS onwards) and follow-on class will paradoxically have some structural similarities to the non-AIP Oyashios that preceded the AIP Soryu Mark 1’s.
Gleaned from Comments(on 21/8/16 3:30 PM) In the FY 2018 budgetary request, the Japanese Ministry of Defence (MoD) will request 76 billion Yen (0.99 billion AUD) for the fist of the New Submarine Class (29SS) which will be Commissioned? “End of FY 2021” [that is in 2022?]. 29SS will be equipped with an improved sonar system and will be more silent/stealthy.
The MoD may explain the increased budgets for 27SS and 28SS to the Board of Audit (BoA), but BoA will not accept the increased budget [merely] due to the price of LIBs. If 27SS and 28SS are not equipped with the new snorkel generation system, the floating [elastc sound reducing] deck and new sonar system, the price of 29SS which utilises these systems and new [G-RX6 see above] torpedoes will be nearly 80 billion yen. This is too expensive. [Pete comment - This quite confusing logistical budgeting situation will be clarified over time.]
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Commentsgleaned May 2016 to August 2016
New Snorkel Budgeting Details
[Pete comment - Japan is perfecting a new snorkel system that is effective in the higher sea states (eg, storms) that are common in the Pacific.]
(12/5/16 2:19 PM) The snorkel generation system which MoD will use for Soryu Mark 2s (27SS and 28SS) is to be consist of a snorkel system and diesel generator. This terminology is rather difficult to understand, because the snorkel system does not generate power. But, this odd terminology has important meaning in the MoD budget and tender system.
27SS budget complexities
A competitive tender is applied for purchasing the diesel generator, because it is general equipment. In contrast, an optional contract can be applied for purchasing the snorkel generation system, according to related law [known as Cabinet Order on Budgets, the Settlement of Accounts, and Accounting (Chapter VII), Article 102-4, (iii)]. The suppler of snorkel generation system can select diesel generator as part, and consequently MoD can effectively exclude undesired diesel generator, I think.
27SS budget complexities
A competitive tender is applied for purchasing the diesel generator, because it is general equipment. In contrast, an optional contract can be applied for purchasing the snorkel generation system, according to related law [known as Cabinet Order on Budgets, the Settlement of Accounts, and Accounting (Chapter VII), Article 102-4, (iii)]. The suppler of snorkel generation system can select diesel generator as part, and consequently MoD can effectively exclude undesired diesel generator, I think.
The MoD may explain the increased budgets for 27SS and 28SS to the Board of Audit (BoA), but BoA will not accept the increased budget [merely] due to the price of LIBs. If 27SS and 28SS are not equipped with the new snorkel generation system, the floating [elastc sound reducing] deck and new sonar system, the price of 29SS which utilises these systems and new [G-RX6 see above] torpedoes will be nearly 80 billion yen. This is too expensive. [Pete comment - This quite confusing logistical budgeting situation will be clarified over time.]
27SS Diesel Generators and LIBs
Specification for 27SSdiesel generators is the same as the conventional specification. 27SS may be equipped with Kawasaki 12V/25/25 SB.
Various combinations of generators and LIBs may be possible, eg:
Case 1 - Two 12V/25/25SBs + Three groups of LIBs (720 LIB cells). Is there sufficient power supplied to the LIBs? 27SSwill utilise the Case 1 two Kawasaki 12V/25/25 SBs arrangement (12/5/16 8:29 PM)
Case 1 - Two 12V/25/25SBs + Three groups of LIBs (720 LIB cells). Is there sufficient power supplied to the LIBs? 27SSwill utilise the Case 1 two Kawasaki 12V/25/25 SBs arrangement (12/5/16 8:29 PM)
The alternative would have been
Case 2 - Three 12V/25/25SBs + Three groups of LIBs (720 LIB cell in total). Each generator corresponds to each group of LIBs. Sufficient power supply to LIBs is expected. Spacing of generator and arrangement of inlet/outlet piping system are difficult in given submarine size. (12/5/16 2:24 PM)
Higher LIBs performance at higher cost
Pete and Japanese Friends
Higher LIBs performance at higher cost
The new propulsion systems for LIBs-Soryus (27SS and 28SS) are more expensive (1.1 billion yen) than those for LABs-Soryus (0.9 billion yen). TMEIC (Toshiba Mitsubishi-Electric Industrial Systems Corporation) won the competitive tender of the propulsion systems against the conventional supplier, Fuji Electric Co., LTD.
It is expected the new propulsion systems are much more powerful than those for LABs-Soryus. LIB Soryus 27SS and 28SS will have a higher maximum speed than previous Soryus (reliant on LABs).
This is assuming
It is expected the new propulsion systems are much more powerful than those for LABs-Soryus. LIB Soryus 27SS and 28SS will have a higher maximum speed than previous Soryus (reliant on LABs).
This is assuming
i) increases in numbers and energy density of battery modules are both +50%,
ii) maximum speed of submarine is proportionate to cube root of total capacity of batteries,
iii) hotel loads at maximum speed are same for LIBs and LABs Soryus.G-RX6 - Future Heavy Weight Torpedo
It is not clear whether the FY 2018 budget for the first of the New (post Soryu) Submarine Class 29SS includes the new torpedo, G-RX6, cost or not. If the cost of the G-RX6s is not taken into account for this budget request, this will present a budgetary problem. The 29SS, if equipped with G-RX6s, will too expensive (eg. 80 billion Yen).
See http://www.mod.go.jp/trdi/en/research/gijutu_senpa_en.html Japan is developing the Heavy weight [G-RX6] torpedo (HWT) for submarine, in order to oppose highly efficient surface warships and submarines. The HWT hass an advanced [Torpedo counter counter measures] TCCM function, and is excellent in detection, tailing, and the performance in deep and shallow ocean. The TCCM capability reduces or eliminates the effect of enemy ship's or submarine's decoys and acoustic jamming. [Pete comment: It is strongly assumed Japanese HWTs share technology with the US Mark 48 eg. in TCCM and deeper/shallower performance.]
Pete and Japanese Friends