Further to Submarine Matters’ interest in Russian submarines Anonymous on April 13, 2018 provided the following data which Pete has put in the Table below.
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On the larger diagram the following parts can be identified:
Comparison between submarines | older model | TKMS Type 212A also Todaro |
When first launched | Sept 1980 | March 2002 |
When last launched | Oct 1999 | July 2015 (Todaro batch) |
Propulsion motors section length | 4 motors = 2 main + 2 small “economical” “silent” motors, [1] 7m | 1 PMSM 1.7m |
Diesel engines | 2, around 10m | 1, around 10m Fuel cell 2.8m |
Non-propulsion hull length | 56.1m | 40.0m |
Total submarine length | 70-73.8m (see | 56.0m to 57.2m (2nd batch) (see sidebar) |
[1] Length of Kilo 877’s economic-silent motor + main motor (4.4MW) is around 7m. When compared to the 212A’s PMSM (of 2MW) at 1.7m long, miniaturization and simplification of propulsion motor system is probably necessary in Russian conventional submarines.
Particularly in the narrows and rocky holes of the Baltic Sea, where the Kilo 877 encounters the 212A, the 212A having a much shorter length overall and having an X-plane tail may tend to make it more manoeuvrable hence able to hide in smaller holes than the Kilo 877. Although the effectiveness of the Kilo's internal thrusters/impeller tunnels may give Kilos some advantages (unassessible at this open source level).
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Diagram of Type 212A that highlights location and rough size of propulsion elements (Diagram courtesy Naval Technology).
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If 212A’s silent running Fuel Cell, (see above) at 2.8m long, is added into the comparison then the Kilo has less of an overly long propulsion problem.
Kilo Project 877 interior diagram above. (See much larger more readable diagram at source https://www.soumarsov.eu/Sous-marins/Post45/877/877_schemdet_agrandi.htm )
On the larger diagram the following parts can be identified:
1. Sonar base MGK-400 RUBIKON
2. 533mm torpedo launch tubes
3. First slice (section?) (Front / torpedoes)
4. Anchor windlass
5. Front panel
6. Reserve torpedo with fast reloading device
7. Front dive bars
8. Life slots ?
9. Front battery
10. MG-53 AVTOGRAF sonar interceptor
11. Bath ?
12. Attack periscope PK-8.5
13. Periscope PZNG-8M
14. Schnorchel mast
15. Diver seat ?
16. Radar mast MRK-50 KASKAD
17. ZAVESA direction finder mast
18. MRP-25 radar interceptor mast
19. STRELA-3 surface-to-air missile lookout container
20. Second slice (section)
21. PCNO ?
22. Third installment (section) (premises life)
23. Rear battery
24. Fourth installment (diesel generators)
25. Diesel generator
26. HP air cylinders
27. Fifth installment (electric motors)
28. Main Electric Motor
29. Standby Bus
30. Sixth Trim (Rear)
31. Rear Panel
32. Silent Electric Motor
33. Rear dive bar and rudder press
34. Vertical drift.
This Youtube below (presented by Gisoo Misha Ahmady in traditional dress) is inside one of Iran's three largest submarines of the Russian (Saint Petersburg) built Iranian TAREG variant (Kilo class Project 877s). We can understand the difficulty of maintaining and monitoring the 877's Lead-acid batteries (LABs). In the loss of Argentine submarine ARA San Juan one of the LAB section was flooded with seawater resulting hydrogen gas leakage, on ignition fire, then catastrophic explosion.
On the mainly English language Youtube above see:
2 minute 31 seconds in to 2mins 48 secs : A crewman, in hot, humid, conditions manually measures
the specific density of sulfuric acid in LABs. This density reduces with potentially dangerous
hydrogen discharge?
More specifically at:
2:31 the crewman is checking LABs on the keel, because heights of right and left hand sides of
LABs are the same.
2:40 : Other LABs are on left hand side. They are also checked. Female announcer says there are
"roughly 80 members of the crew!"Is it the same crew size in Indian Kilos?
Anonymous and Pete
the specific density of sulfuric acid in LABs. This density reduces with potentially dangerous
hydrogen discharge?
More specifically at:
2:31 the crewman is checking LABs on the keel, because heights of right and left hand sides of
LABs are the same.
2:40 : Other LABs are on left hand side. They are also checked. Female announcer says there are
"roughly 80 members of the crew!"Is it the same crew size in Indian Kilos?
Anonymous and Pete